Thursday, August 19, 2010

pattern, design, copyright issue, HELP

I have a question without going into alot of detail on the issue I am far too angry well more hurt than angry i guess.

I designed a pattern, which took quite awhile to get it RIGHT, sold the pattern, and a person has tatted my design and is selling them FOR THEIR OWN PROFIT and of course I was NOT asked permission to do so. BUT they feel that if a stitch was changed here and there that its no longer MY original design... I assumed proper etiquitte would be to ASK for permission and regardless of stitch change it still shouldnt be allowed... This has me kind of upset ok really upset this happened to me (as well as others) before and it all blew up in my face, I feel I am right, as far as I know I am errrr was the only one with that particular design done that way, and before someone thinks it NO its not a technique, I know those arent copywritten.

I contacted said person and well they feel they are in the right and I am in the wrong...

THOUGHTS anyone.... Perhaps I am the one who is wrong :(


TypsTatting said...

I reckon that no matter what the pattern is yours whether they change a stitch or what ever they did. You are the one that designed the original pattern not them. And they should be made accountable for that!!!

Fox said...

FYI: This is interesting and well- written, Heather.
♥ Fox : )

Katherinne McKay said...

From what I've read (and have been taught), so long as the new version is 80% different than yours, then technically it is theirs. However it sounds like this person hasn't changed it that much, so you are in the right about it.

I'm not sure if there is anything that you can do about it, since this is the age of open source. If it's bothering you this much, then contact the person again and explain why you feel slighted in a professional manner, i.e. your views on the problem and how you would have preferred them to ask.

Hope this helps -- I haven't been in this situation, but this is how I'd react.

shannon_in_love said...

Personally i don't think that they are in the right. copyright is a big issue in tatting. perhaps making a full disclosure would TERI DUSENBURY. on her website it outlines EXACTLY her policy. here's the url and you can see for yourself.

Jeff Hamilton said...

I'm no expert, but I would think it is still your design. At the very least, the person in question should acknowledge the fact that the item they are selling was based off of your design.

Miranda said...

It is definitely your design. Changing a stitch or two doesn't change that. It's your idea, and you figured out how to do it. You did all the work of designing.

Having said that, and I know you don't want to go into detail, what were the terms of the sale? Did you sell the pattern only to this individual? Did you say that he or she could sell items made from the pattern? If this is the case, then they do have the right to do so. However, they absolutely should not be claiming the design as their own. That is theft of intellectual property.

Unfortunately, if you've talked to them and they won't see reason, then the only recourse I know of is to hire a lawyer. The legal expenses would probably not be worth it. Grrrrr.

Or, you could try publicly shaming this individual by posting their name on your blog, but that could backfire too.

The only advice I can give is, live and learn. In the future when you sell or share your patterns, make sure that you state exactly how they may and may not be used. You could even add a statement like, "Changing one or two stitches does not make it your own design." It's too bad that we have to say these things. People should respect each other's creativity and recognize that stealing another's work is wrong.

mickchick831 said...

What it this boils down to is Copyright VS. Patten. A copyright only cover your original work, Your piece, the photos of it, and any written word. She could not sell your original written or downloaded pattern, but she can sell anything she makes from it.

A Design Patten is a whole other story. If you hold the patent on the design, it can not be copied or sold in any form or variation.

When you are dealing with a craft that has been around for hundreds of years it is realy hard to claim and original design or motif.

But, it is common courtesy to ask permission before selling or even displaying an item made from someone else’s pattern, especially when you are in such a small community as Tatting. Chances are the work will be seen.

Unfortunately, I read a post like this daily.

Here are couple of links if you want to read up more on the topic.

Hope this helps without discouraging.


Lady Euphoria Deathwatch said...

Hi Heather,

So Sorry!

As far as I know they are in the right. Tatting has been around for a very long time. Old patterns keep on being found that make a liar our of us when we think we are the first.

I got caught up in this some years ago. Your pattern 'un-changed' is yours, but any 'improvements' belongs to the maker.

As for me, I just put it all out there for the taking. I can't get hurt that way any longer.

Hugs, Euphoria

*♥* Heather *♥* said...

I think this will always be a sore spot amoung us tatters and designers. I probably should have just kept my mouth shut, now I am the one left feeling like crap about it. sigh!! I just took for granted that proper etiquitte would be to ask first like all other tatters have done to me in the past. I know if I wanted to sell someones design that I tatted without permission the guilt would eat at me. Which is why I believe I design so much so I do not step on any toes or infringe on anyones copyright.
Today is another day , move onward right?!

Imoshen said...

Depending on the 'chosen place of sale' (etsy for example) you can put in a complaint to the site admin and state that your pattern/work is being copied and used without your permission. They would then have to remove the said items from their shop. But you do have to prove they were yours to begin with.
I'm sorry you have to go through this, so many have had similar things happen to them in the years I found the internet.I hope you find some relief from this and don't blame yourself on it. If it feels wrong it's because it is.
I do have to mention that I love the widgets you added showing your stuff for sale. They are just too cute!

singtatter said...

Once a pattern is released for sale or for free, the pattern is in your name, others shouldn't sell the pattern.

Don't know if I'm right, but feel that it's ok for the others to sell things they made using the pattern. Can't expect everyone who buy all those craft books to be making the items following the instruction ony for their own use. Though it is proper to acknowledge that the item they are selling was made from your design. If the pattern is a free one, it is not too much for the designer to request that others use it for non-profit purposes.

*♥* Heather *♥* said...

Thanks again everyone. I have just decided to drop this, I do not have the time nor patience to deal with this. I know its my design and have heard a few others were asking said person about the design being mine, so I know and others know. I know everyone does not follow but I state that it is NOT to be used for personal profit, usually if someone asks me I permit them to sell it at craft fairs and shows as long as I am credited as the designer but DO NOT sell them online at all because that is where I sell mine... I am done with this live and learn. I know I am not the only one its happened to but just the same its just a bit upsetting.

LadyShuttleMaker aka MadMadPotter said...

This is always a tough debate among tatters. In my opinion if people have purchased a pattern they have a right to tat and sell that pattern. It is preferable if they give credit to the author. What I definitely do NOT agree with is changing someone else's pattern slightly and claiming it as their own original design. That is WRONG, I think we all know that is wrong and I don't know how people who do this sort of thing sleep at night.
It is really up to us, the tatting community, to hold each other up to a higher standard and call out bad behaviour. For the most part out community is really respectful to each other. This is one of the biggest reasons why I love it so much. Hopefully this person will come to their senses. Ripping off the ideas and hard work of others is despicable and I am so sorry you are experiencing this. Chin up lassie!....oh and thank you to FOX for the link. said...

I don't know enough to have a opinion on this issue. However, your feelings are always valid. You have the right to question what's happening. Sharing is the only way we figure out what's fair.